Curse

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 18, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

You seem to think everything should be either monking or hurling out damage points. There are far more ways of augmenting damage or reducing it than a monk could ever hope to accomplish. A blinded Hammer warrior will do no damage saving the monk far more energy than it would cost to blind him, whereas GDW adds up enough damage in just a few seconds (not counting knockdown value) to be farr stronger than any normal spell. Finally, pushing red bars up doesn't require much - indeed you can protect AND push red bars in an ER build.

i never said everything in gw should be monking or dealing domage. i said fire eles and er prot eles are not the most effective ways to go about doing those two things.

faraaz · Aug 18, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Also, I think one of the reasons, apart from making blanket statements insulting the intelligence of 90% of the PvE players in GW, is that most of the standard builds work okay. A Searing Flames Ele, altho not always the best option, will tend to get things done (unless you are fighting destroyers of course, which is just epic fail imo). As for gimmick builds...that's exactly what they are...gimmicks. They are not always robust enough to be used in General PvE, although they may have a specialised niche use...so that is also something to keep in mind.

Having said all that, enough with the arrogance, FFS. I guarantee that every one of you has done atleast 1 of the mistakes you laugh at other people for.

Sheesh.

Proff · Aug 18, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Because eles get the equipment they need for the build they'll run for a good chunk of the game early on. Most of the pugs you find outside of eotn are made up of newbs and undevelopped characters that may or may not even have the usefull elites for their class, which really doesnt leave a lot of room to experiment as a monk when you just made an ele. I mean really, you make eles to see things blow up, if you dont it's cause you're new to the game and really have no clue on how to even play.

As for why more exp players dont run it, simply cause monks do it better.

Tyla · Aug 18, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Also, I think one of the reasons, apart from making blanket statements insulting the intelligence of 90% of the PvE players in GW, is that most of the standard builds work okay. A Searing Flames Ele, altho not always the best option, will tend to get things done (unless you are fighting destroyers of course, which is just epic fail imo). As for gimmick builds...that's exactly what they are...gimmicks. They are not always robust enough to be used in General PvE, although they may have a specialised niche use...so that is also something to keep in mind.

Having said all that, enough with the arrogance, FFS. I guarantee that every one of you has done atleast 1 of the mistakes you laugh at other people for.

Sheesh.

Oh, people do make mistakes. It just so happens that alot of PuGs carry arrogance and take PvE completely seriously.

The people we're talking about here are people who think Healing Breeze is a good skill to run on a 8 man bar with no splitting at all when it does minimalist effects. The people we're talking about make some of the worst mistakes you'll ever know.

eximiis · Aug 18, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Imo ER heal ele can outheal the best monk in GW. There is no way a monk can heal that amount.

Infuse
Vigorous spirit
Holy veil
Purifying veil
Vital blessing
Glyph of swiftness
Aura of restoration
Ether renewal

Heals for TOO much health.
spam Aura and vigorous each time they recharge

Tyla · Aug 18, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

I thought the health loss from Infuse comes after the heal from Vig Spirit and Aura?

I also thought a Monk could run Vital Blessing and Infuse?

I also thought you don't need to heal everything, but only when they need healing?

I also thought protting > powerhealing through everything.

-Lotus- · Aug 18, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

no thanks to the one-trick-pony powerhealer. you never need that much healing ever. Same problem as HB, only worse. with a decent atttribute spread WoH with divine favor will almost Max out almost any bar.

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 18, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I thought the health loss from Infuse comes after the heal from Vig Spirit and Aura?

I also thought a Monk could run Vital Blessing and Infuse?

I also thought you don't need to heal everything, but only when they need healing?

I also thought protting > powerhealing through everything.

In the age of Ursan, carrying a bunch of self-powering enchantments and mashing 1 for a constant stream of healing may be attractive to some people

I've got an ER build with Life Bond and Infuse Health that can keep the whole party bonded and heal for 250+ HP every second. And yet, I've used it exactly 3 times when not hero/henching...

Windf0rce · Aug 18, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I thought the health loss from Infuse comes after the heal from Vig Spirit and Aura?

I also thought a Monk could run Vital Blessing and Infuse?

I also thought you don't need to heal everything, but only when they nteed healing?

I also thought protting > powerhealing through everything.

Powerhealing works wonders with a Paragon or two around to do all the party wide protting, and a player controlled Renewal Ele can spam both Prots and Heals better than a Monk. Let's not be hypocrites and say 'there's no need for that much heal', because of course the more IS better no matter if it is overkill or not.

I have been vanquishing with a couple friends the last 3 weeks and we came to conclusion Monks are very easily replaced, we hardly use them anymore in our teams. Paragons prot much, much better, and N/Rts or Renewal Eles heal just as well (if not better due to e-management). Monks shine on hex heavy areas and that's about it, it's usually better to take classes with endless Energy such as Necros or Paras.

Of course Monks can do it, I just don't think they are the best and irreplaceable like everyone says...

Snow Bunny · Aug 18, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Because monks can prot better and don't need infinite energy to do it.

Sure, an Ele can out heal a monk, but the monk can out-prot the ele. When it comes down to it, Prot counts and the monk wins out.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 19, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Because monks can prot better and don't need infinite energy to do it.

Sure, an Ele can out heal a monk, but the monk can out-prot the ele. When it comes down to it, Prot counts and the monk wins out.

I can see that because a Ele's elite in an ER build is strictly stuck to -ER- but other then that, I don't see how being able to spam every non-elite Protection Prayer skill upon recharge is worse then a monk. It's simply a different way of doing it. Monks have Divine Favor, and can reach higher attributes and pack more of a protective punch, but an Ele can spam many 10 energy prot skills upon recharge all while bonding the entire same team if they wanted to.

God knows I'm not insinuating that's necessary at all, because it's not. Nor is it exactly fun after a while of prot spamming your entire team.

draxynnic · Aug 19, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Grogs~

If all the OP was doing was using a high energy pool to hold off pressure then it would be fail.

ER is the key, as long as you've got some enchantments on you while spamming, then it's hello unlimited energy. The PvE version of the skill can be kept up almost 24/7.

Any damage that is lost by speccing into prot can be more than made up for by bringing something like GDW to kick around the physicals.

I may not have expressly stated it, but that was included in my analysis. ER is an ES skill.

In principle, Ether Prism could have the same effect, but is fiddlier to use.

daze · Aug 19, 2008, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

at the moment it appears that in Hard Mode, mesmers are elementalists and elementalists are mesmers.

How dare you say such blasphemy! I invoke the wrath of Shan upon you and your first born! Have at Ye
J/K

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Imo ER heal ele can outheal the best monk in GW. There is no way a monk can heal that amount.

[Infuse]
[Vigorous spirit]
[Holy veil]
[Purifying veil]
[Vital blessing]
[Glyph of swiftness]
[Aura of restoration]
[Ether renewal]

Heals for TOO much health.
spam Aura and vigorous each time they recharge

Just curious of what it looks like. It seems viable. Ill have to try it...

So apparently [ether renewal] doesnt have a cap? Holy crap! Now i just wish my derv could use energy storage. I wonder how long until the skill is nerfed.

Tyla · Aug 19, 2008, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

I can see that because a Ele's elite in an ER build is strictly stuck to -ER- but other then that, I don't see how being able to spam every non-elite Protection Prayer skill upon recharge is worse then a monk. It's simply a different way of doing it. Monks have Divine Favor, and can reach higher attributes and pack more of a protective punch, but an Ele can spam many 10 energy prot skills upon recharge all while bonding the entire same team if they wanted to.

God knows I'm not insinuating that's necessary at all, because it's not. Nor is it exactly fun after a while of prot spamming your entire team.

I think you missed the beginning of his post.

Snow Bunny · Aug 19, 2008, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

God knows I'm not insinuating that's necessary at all, because it's not. Nor is it exactly fun after a while of prot spamming your entire team.

Which is why people don't do it.

Tearz1993 · Aug 19, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

The reason all of these ER builds are weaker than monks is because they only do one thing, prot or heal, and still can't do it as well as a primary monk. Not only this, but being a primary monk lets you use better emanage like [channeling] which is only 1 skill instead of two skills, 1 being an elite.

Also, monks can do both healing AND prot on the same bar and still use it effectively.

Healing someone for 400 health might be nice, but it isn't efficient. My friend was able to get his health up to 2000, but that doesn't make him a good tank.

ALF71BE · Aug 19, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Though monks are by far the best choice in PvP, a ER spamming heals without energy problems and an Imbagon will be more than enough to keep the party alive in PvE, and they don't even have to be half as good as what good monks are.

Sure, a monk can out-prot an ele, yet with some energy problems, but Imbagons reduce the need of it.

It's A Me · Aug 19, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

dmt feel bad about ur attempt at being rashional on the pvx discussion, the build wasnt good, i tried to do something like that in ab today, gave it 1 go wiv a fairly decent setup (i mst admit /laugh) and it jst didnt work. the only thing they RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up on was mentioning y, other than "build fails, gtfo" comments, they never answered properly. so its allrite, cos at least u knw ur smarter than a monkey.

Perfected Shadow · Aug 21, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Because monks can prot better and don't need infinite energy to do it.

Sure, an Ele can out heal a monk, but the monk can out-prot the ele. When it comes down to it, Prot counts and the monk wins out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

The reason all of these ER builds are weaker than monks is because they only do one thing, prot or heal, and still can't do it as well as a primary monk.

Err what? I play Ether prot a lot and Vital Blessing/Life Bond can be kept up on the whole party while spamming PS and SB. I need someone else to cover the healing but they'd have a damn easy time of it.

So what now? You're gonna say you can solo heal/prot your party as a hybrid?

Tyla · Aug 21, 2008, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

Err what? I play Ether prot a lot and Vital Blessing/Life Bond can be kept up on the whole party while spamming PS and SB. I need someone else to cover the healing but they'd have a damn easy time of it.

So you have two skills: Prot Spirit and Spirit bond when they won't do anything because of the mitigation power of Life Bond. Not only that, but you get more powerful prots and heals on your common two Monk backline, along with the Divine Favour bonus.

Quote:

So what now? You're gonna say you can solo heal/prot your party as a hybrid?

You either said this statement to troll or show your stupidity. Pure heal or prot bars are usually bad. Bonders are weak, which is why they aren't ran on Monks either.